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WebMaster Note: I have just begun collecting all the information nessasary to
build this FAQ page. I hope to have it finished by the summer of 2008.
Thanks, JY
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General Product Information
All of the scooters and bikes, as well as parts
and accessories, are made in
China, but the two main suppliers we use for
scooters and bikes both have representatives there, or are there to
inspect production. What we sell is NOT just what the Chinese dump on
the American market to eager importers here looking to make a fortune on
cheap scooters that will not hold up over time. Our products are
made for us (the American Consumer), under supervision of Currie
Technologies or Dart Electrics, by our most industrious friends
overseas.
Generally parts are readily
available. Only had problems with the cheap junkie scooters where they
used ever changing parts depending on what was on sale from their
suppliers no doubt. Currie has rarely, if ever, failed to provide us
with parts in a timely manner, whether for stock or for end user.
Peddle First (PF) Controllers were used on the
early bikes and scooters as a means of forcing the rider to peddle or push
the vehicle a certain speed (usually 2-5 mph) before ANY power will be
applied, or before the throttle will work. They were (are)
cheaper to make than either PA or
IS controllers.
You
use the most power going from a stand-still to motion, and much less to
maintain your motion once going. By forcing the rider to take care of
this most power consuming portion of the ride, the "take-off", the
manufacturer can boast much longer running time or range - because it's
forcing YOU to do more work.
Today's more savvy EVers, knowing the above fact, knows that if they are
going a long distance, and taking the vehicle to it's range limits, that by
peddling first (even with the more flexible Instant Start (IS) controllers -
just because you have IS doesn't mean you have to use it every time...) they
will get more miles from their battery pack.
Peddle First is not to be confused with Peddle Assist, which is less
flexible than IS, but still better (In the writer's opinion) than PF.
PF is a "Why Bother" kind of thing.
All electric bikes are in essence Peddle Assist (PA). If you want to peddle and
see the glass full and you assisting the motor, that's one, but two is seeing
the glass half empty and the motor is assisting your peddling. Most of the
Currie Izip bike have a switch that allow you to choose to be in "peddle assist"
mode or "instant start" Mode. In older peddle assist bikes there were no
throttles and thus no variation in the amount of the assist.
All, or
almost all, modern Peddle Assist bikes have a throttle, but unlike Instant Start
controllers, the Peddle Assist controller (or PA mode if dual mode) will only
function when you are actively peddling. This will happen at any speed,
usually, unlike the PF controllers, but will only work when you are actively
peddling. So if you hurt your foot or you knee, you will not be able
to use your electric bike unless you bite the bullet and peddle in spite of your
injury. Unfortunately the Currie Ni-MH and Li-Ion powered bikes (made in
the factory with these battery technologies pre-installed) use only a Peddle
Assist controller. We therefore suggest to those who want the flexibility
of IS, to buy the bikes made with the standard SLA batteries and replace them
now or later with the other battery technologies.
Peddle
Assist is not to be confused with Peddle First. This is, in the writer's
opinion, a reduction in flexibility of the vehicle with almost no savings over
the Instant Start (IS). With IS you have the choice of the motor
assisting, doing nothing, or assisting to variable degrees. With PF or PA
that choice is taken from you (and any future owner of the vehicle, and thus
affecting resale value).
Instant Start (IS) controllers are just what they say they are. They will
start working at any time. Period.
If you want to use your bike or scooter with IS controller to get exercise, you
don't have to use the motor if you don't want to.
If you want to use your IS controlled bike or scooter to provide Peddle Assist,
then only use as much of the throttle as you need to get the amount of assist
you want.
The IS controller is the most flexible, and practical of the controllers, though
it does cost more than either the PF or the PA controller. If you are
unable to peddle for any reason, the IS controller is the ONLY controller that
is hit the throttle and go. If you want more capabilities from your
electric vehicle, don't be sorry, get an IS controller in it.
The Controller is the "brains" of the system. It translates
signals from the throttle (and/or other sensors) and determines the
power output to the motor many times per second. This output is
sent in pulses rather than a continuous stream of power, and with the
Brushless Motors, which have feedback sensors in the motor, the
controller calculates whether a pulse is needed or not - rather like the
difference between mechanical timing and electronic timing - and if it
decides that a pulse is not needed, results in increased efficiency
because those pulses that don't get sent add up and save your batteries
charge so you can get more miles out of the same battery pack (see also
Brushed/Brushless Motors).
Chargers &
Charging
What kind of rechargeable
batteries comes with my Bike/Scooter?
SLA batteries and charger. BUT
the system doesn't care
where the electrons come from. Any bike or scooter can be switched over
to Ni-MH (and charger) or Li-Ion (and charger) at any time. Just
replace the batteries with equal voltage, and a matching charger. DO
NOT attempt to increase voltage, though you can increase the AH somewhat
for longer cruising time.
Yes, all products currently sold by Scoot On This! LLC comes with a "smart"
charger. A smart charger has a feedback sensor that "knows" when the
battery is getting full and will drop off the charging when the battery is full.
The chargers will drop off in three stages as it nears completion, similar in
fasion to how your toilet will gradually stop the flow of water as the tank gets
full.
IF YOU DON'T SEE THE CHARGER LIGHT GO GREEN AFTER 6-8 HOURS - UNPLUG IT AT
ONCE AND CALL ME!! If a "smart" charger goes "dumb" it will force more electrons
into the battery pack and they will swell up like balloons and completely
trash your batteries.
Chargers are specific to the battery technology and cannot
be interchanged. An SLA charger will NOT work with a Li-Ion
battery, or a Ni-MH battery with an SLA charger, etc.
In a nutshell: yes, you should, and yes, you can, BUT we do not recommend it.
Here is why:
Batteries have a short break-in period. After four or five charges,
you should notice a slight increase in performance. Once the light goes
green, or solid green depending on the charger, you can leave it plugged in with
out hurting anything (if the charger is working properly, see above), but I tell people to
unplug them when done to prevent any potential fire hazard; as we should do with
any transformer or power supply when not in use, like answering machines,
printers, etc., but of course nobody does. See also:
http://scootonthis.com/tipscare.html
for more on caring for your new LEV.
How Often should I charge?
After every use. If you have standard
SLA batteries, you want to
keep them always topped off. The memory effect business was with the
Nickel Cadmium technology, and nobody uses them for our purposes anymore.
If you
With any battery except for Ni-Cd (Nickel Cadmium) you want to keep them
topped off at all times! If you are having range issues then it may
be that only one of the four batteries has sustained damage of some kind.
Remember: the pack of batteries
is only as good as the weakest one. It completes a circuit through all
batteries an its way and if one is broken, then it impairs the flow through
all of them.
Keeping your batteries "topped off" is the best way to assure long life in
your batteries. Most damage to batteries comes from impact, so we do not
recommend jumping curbs or doing stunts with your scooter or bike! Go easy
and your batteries will last for years with literally zero maintenance other
than charging. You never have to put anything in them, like water, or lube
them or anything! These batteries (SLA, Ni-MH, or Lithium) can be safely
stored in any angle or position; even upside down for storing your vehicle in
tight spaces.
The battery pack (and the batteries inside) is able to endure a great amount
of normal riding, bumping, potholes, and jars, but with traditional SLA
batteries, impacts remain the number one cause of damaged batteries! This is why
the warranty on batteries is the shortest; usually only 30 days, and even then
only covers manufacturer defects, and it's easy to tell when an internal plate
is cracked or otherwise damaged by impact (or short circuiting, of course), or
was never working to begin with. So ride with care, and DO NOT jump curbs or
attempt to perform "tricks" using an electric bike or scooter! With normal
pleasure or commute riding, your SLA batteries should hold up for several years
- assuming constant charging and top-off charging is also occurring.
A normal multi-meter will NOT test for internal damage to the batteries.
For that you need a load tester, and they are cheap. They are made
primarily for car batteries, but will work on any 12V battery. So you will
have to disconnect each one before you begin testing with a load tester (see
also: My batteries are soldered in place!)
Your multi-meter will tell you that you may have a full 13.5 or 14 volts, but if
there is internal damage, that voltage will be hampered from flowing properly.
What the load tester does is to simulate working conditions wherein the proof of
the pudding is revealed. This is accomplished by running the current
through a coil (a heater coil and so be careful, the tester does get hot while
being used!) and drain off power as your motor normally would do. The load
tester has a gage which will tell you what your voltage is (nominal and during
load test) and has an easy to read set of resultant areas that assure your
battery, even if it's weak, is still viable.
Because the testers are make for larger batteries, you have to take the scale
reduction into account, so it may be in the very bottom of the green area, that
is all it's going to show for our 10 or 12 Amp Hour (Ah) batteries. It's a
good idea to test your batteries under load when you first get them so you
know what the normal, healthy reading is for your particular batteries.
It is a good idea to test your batteries FIRST before tearing into the
electronics or motor looking for problems or need to do some troubleshooting.
Generally when you loose power suddenly, it's because a connector has
become jarred loose.
Testing a pack of batteries without a load tester is not recommended - you
will be ticked off when you thought you ruled them out hours ago! If,
however, all you have is a multi-meter, you can still look for anomalies such as
one battery have a different voltage reading, even if it appears slight - it's a
signal to be concerned since the batteries should be working equally as a team.
If one is out of step with the others, you can suspect internal damage and seek
out a load test to confirm.
Good healthy batteries should easily stay in the green in the load test, have
equal voltage during normal use, and have a normal operating charge, as
individual or in packs about
12V = 13.5+ volts when charged
24V = 26+ volts when charged
36V = 39+ volts when charged
48V = 53+ volts when charged
Can I Change Battery Technology?
Yes, you can. Most LEVs come
with standard SLA batteries because
they are cost effective for the manufacturer, who is in the LEV business
not the battery business after all.
Converting to alternative battery technology is simply a matter of
obtaining the pack and charger of the new battery type, then mounting
the pack to you bike in a convenient place (or fit into your hard-shell
case if possible), and then connect up the wires to the leads (or
somewhere along the leads) that lead to the controller. That's it.
The system does not care where it gets its electrons, as long as
it gets them. There is nothing else you need to change or adapt
to run Ni-MH or Li-Ion batteries, other than to purchase a
matching charger. Chargers are specific to
the battery technology and cannot be interchanged.
An SLA charger will NOT work with a Li-Ion battery, or a Ni-MH
battery with an SLA charger, etc.
Passengers
Can I carry a passenger on my scooter or bike?
Not unless you have both of the following: a raised seat directly behind the
driver, AND you have a foot peg or foot rest area clearly provided for the feet
of a rear passenger. You cannot ride two person per scooter in any other
way or risk a ticket.
Power and Performance
General Troubleshooting
What is the first thing to check if I'm
not getting good performance?
The very first thing, of course, is to check the batteries. Always
check the batteries. One cracked plate in one cell will bring the
performance of the whole system down. See Also
How do I maintain my batteries. It's not a matter of it works or it
don't, especially with a pack. You need to test each battery individually,
and with both a Multi-Meter, and a Load Tester. Only the Load Tester will
tell you if there is internal damage.
The meter should read an equal charge in all batteries in the pack. If one
battery is less than the others by more than a voltage point, it is
suspect. The Load Tester will also check the voltage, but additionally it
will pass current through a resistive coil (a heater basically) to simulate
a working load. This is where internal damage can be found, and the meter
will go right to the "bad" zone if there is damage.
The pack of batteries is only as good as the weakest battery. Testing
batteries, before anything else, is the best way to make sure your pack is
providing you will all the available power it can.
How Far Can I Go on Electric?
Can I use new technology to extend my range?
Yes. See Batteries, Chargers and Charging, How Can I Change Battery
Technology?
Payment/Shipping FAQs
This is determined by the supplier, not by Scoot On This! LLC. There
are a couple of reasons why they do this, the main being:
1. Set-Up and Support. The Manufacturer or
distributor may require us to only sell to local customers (though we may
display those products on our web site) because they want to ensure - for their
safety and yours - that the product is set up correctly so that no-one gets
hurt. That's pretty easy to understand. All the KHS brand of bikes
are an example of this. They also want to ensure the customers using their
products can have professional servicing to increase the life of the bike's
useful years.
2. New Product Lines. Often if a distributor
is bringing out a new product line there will be a period where the items should
only be sold through a local dealer so that if there are issues (ok, problems),
they do not want to create the time and costly experience of having to have the
item shipped back to the distributor (never the Manufacturer - way to cost
prohibitive, since they are all in China), but can be dealt with locally.
This can and does happen, and can ruin a less established supplier; oh, the
stories I could tell...
Trying to re-create factory carton and packing specs long after the original
carton is gone, like on used or floor models, is near impossible - and
unreasonable to try with Freight Items (over 150 lbs) and again, there is the
risk of shipping damage due to incorrect packing and we are not going to risk
it, and you don't want us to because shipping - for whatever reason and in
whichever direction is YOUR responsibility! Think about that before
you ask us.
After our first few years in business we
noticed that the same law that says, "90 percent of your grief [in business]
comes from 10% of your customers", also works for suppliers. We were
spending exorbitant amounts of time on certain suppliers products, and hardly
any on others. It was a no brainer to focus our business model on the most
effective products, both for the sake of our customers, and for ourselves.
Yes, we considered what we, as a group of people who have put our money where
our mouth is, want from our investment in our company. We put our
interests into the equation.
Jon Y recently sent a letter to a customer
explaining why we would not carry, or get for him, on of the old friction drive
kits that sell for around 3 or 4 hundred: "
We recalled that our reason for
exclusion of products like these, are that a much higher percentage of
customers do not keep them, or always have problems with them if they do.
And we have better things to do. No, really. Our mission is serious and
these products drag us down into a quagmire of time consuming details that
our original mission is lost. Maybe you would not be one of the unhappy
ones, but to us, it's not worth the chance. We hope you will understand
that our clients need to make a full commitment to going electric. We wish
that we could finance these goods, but so far we have not met up with a
company willing to provide that service to our clients other than the major
credit cards - and believe me, we know how desperately we all want to avoid
giving those wolves any more meat.
Save up and get something that
is not yester-years technology that never worked all that well in the first
place. That's my personal advice. I am sorry that we could not accommodate
your interests."It wastes everyone's time, and patience, to
sell other countries "excess goods" that were probably rejected by the
originating countries population, making them "excess". Sure they are
cheap, and the dealers that sell them are making fortunes. And when
the public outcry becomes too great, they silently slip away. If there
is a register of come and gone scooter shops (in Portland alone!) you would
no doubt be surprised.
We are going to survive and we are going to increase efficiency, earn
customer trust, and become a respected merchant of Light Electric Vehicles
for Oregon, and for the Country, and ....??
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